Never. I don't like priest. Why would anyone want to have that job. If you ask me, they have more demons inside than the average citizen. Catholic priest more specifically. I do not believe these men can be trusted. They are not people of god. They are not closer to god than you or I.
They do live every day of their lives involved in the church devoted entirely (ie: giving their life up for) to what they believe is God. They certainly may not be good by your and/or my judgment, but it's hard to argue they are not closer to god than you or I. And as to why someone would want to have the job of a priest - I think mostly b/c of their love of God, and wish to spread goodness they find in this love of God. And their love is most assuredly more than you can imagine if you can't understand why they would want to give up so much for this job.
@theuglystick: Yes they are closer b/c they devote their lives to god - of course. This certainly does not make them better people (or even more obedient to his/her god's laws) per se; but I don't see how you can argue that if person A devotes his life to something person B does not - that person A is not necessarily closer to what he devotes himself to and B does not.
I think being a priest/ nun doesn't necessarily mean that they have a stronger relationship to God than regular people. All of us have equal chance of being close to God.
But to PeterC - Surely, there are priests who did some terrible things which is sad to hear. But to assume that all priests and nuns are filled with demons inside??? How can they be called such a thing if they not only devote their daily lives to God, but also helping a lot of people to change and heal spiritually which obviously- some people here absolutely needs.
@SaM97 I wasn't saying all priest. If that's what it sounded like that's not what I meant. We all have demons. I just don't like priest because by the very nature of their position and power in the church people think they are closer to god. They are not. If you think that man in the robe is close to god you are WRONG.
Those individuals who seek the position of priesthood either want power, access to young boys, or do want to help people. Yes, 2 out of 3 priest are not doing it for the right reasons.
I was an alter boy for 5 years. I guess I got the 1 out of 3 good priests because he was pretty cool and never did anything. Although for some reason I do remember they told us not to close the bathroom door when we went pee. WEIRD???
@f171615 Your argument only assumes from the perception of the person, not from god.
Look, if I got a buddy that worships the ground I walk on, really looks up to me, spends most of his time with me, does that make him closer to me? Maybe in his view, but not necessarily mine.
Yes, That is the argument I was discussing: is one person closer to god than another? So person A is closer to god than person B - but is god closer to person A or B is another interesting question to bring up.
@ theuglystick: i understand your perspective, and never really thought of it that way. usually when i think of closeness to God; i don't see God as the one playing favorites, rather the devotion men show to God as being a measure of the closeness.
@ theuglystick: i understand your perspective, and never really thought of it that way. usually when i think of closeness to God; i don't see God as the one playing favorites, rather the devotion men show to God as being a measure of the closeness. it all depends on your idea of God I guess. typically for me i imagine the traditional - fair, just, loving. wheres others may not apply those traits to God and view it the way you do where he simply choses his favorites on his own whims.
I actually think you are misinterpreting my comment. I'm saying it's a two way street, not that god is playing favorites. But rather then cluttering this website and annoying everyone with a religious topic that may never end, why don't you email me and I'll be glad to discuss this offline.
@ theuglystick: I do understand your comment, no misinterpretation. And I was just commenting how I thought your take on determining closeness to God was interesting b/c of how it is dependent on how you view God. So I was just clarifying I was coming from a perspective of God is fair, just, loving, yada yada yada - which logically follows that when one is more devoted to him, they would be closer to him. However, with differing views of God - then it's interesting to see how you can have differing views of being close to God.
So, a priest is closer to god than a person who also devotes his life to god (let's just say, hypothetically, this person attends church on a regular basis, prays as much as a priest, donates his wealth to the church, etc, etc, etc), but just not as a priest?
I'm sorry, but it just reminds me of one of those fake titles at work, like "assistant to the regional manager."
@ theuglystick: using my perception of God, the person closer to God would simply be the one who's more devoted to God. And typically a priest who gives up their life to serve God's will is the one who is more devoted to God.
Ok. So a guy who's not a priest but is more devoted than a priest is closer to god?
You must have a lot of faith in your priests. My interpretation is that the mechanic down the street, the farmer, the accountant, but not the lawyer, can be just as close to god as a priest.
I know and acknowledge corruption that exists in the Church. However, I have known in my life a number of Catholic priests, and I can tell you from my experience these people a far and away more devoted to God than any other line of professionals (it's not even close). I'm not saying by your or my judgment that priests are better men, but their devotion to God is more. According to your hypothetical, I admit there are people who go to church regularly, pray a lot, donate their wealth - but as a rule, this is just the starting point of any priests devotion. Priests get a bad rap, and this may color your impression of them b/c of the skewed stereotype created. But from my reality of priests they are not the 2 out 3 joining the priesthood for the wrong reasons.
You are confusing my comments with Peter's (and I really want to comment here because you're really putting words in my mouth). I have never said that priests are bad, nor has my judgment of priests been skewed by a couple of bad apples. In fact, I honestly think very highly of priests and what they do for the religious community and the general community. I just don't think that they're necessarily closer to god than anyone else who is just as devout.
Look, two different interpretations of the same thing. Let's just leave it as that.
@ theuglystick: the comment from me you're talking about wasn't directed at you specifically (i didn't put the @__name:__ in the beginning), sorry about making that so confusing though. my general thinking though is, to be a priest means you're taking your devotedness to a level that normal people can't achieve with their normal lives. however, some priests become corrupt and lose or never have the devotion - but as a rule, just being a priest requires a higher level of devotion than can be achieved through a normal (unpriestly) life.
One of my closest friends was born and baptized a catholic. His parents were very devout catholics, as was he when he was growing up. Went to church every week. You know, really devoted. During high school, and not to mention a jesuit high school, he started reading about other religions and beliefs, from dante's inferno to taoism to buddhism to hinduism. He then decided, on his own judgment, to become atheist. I can tell you right now that his mom cried for days after he told her. Right before she passed away from cancer a few years ago, she actually begged him to reconsider catholicism. I don't remember what he told her, but I know he's still an atheist today.
I don't wanna cap on your comment (cuz it's actually funny), but if my buddy's considered a virgin, he'd call religious people brainwashed fools.
serious. when i first read the question it seemed innocuous enough, but now has reached a point where it will take some work to read through all the comments.
@theuglystick - insightful comment. mine was meant entirely in jest. I respect an atheist's choice to believe or not believe as much as I'd believe in the same for Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, etc. That's pretty much where I stand on the topic of religion. Everyone has a right to believe in what they want to as long as it's not harming anybody else.
Absolutely, I didn't want to get all serious because I know you were joking, but I thought it was a good story to share. It was honestly one of the funniest analogies I've ever heard.
And as to why someone would want to have the job of a priest - I think mostly b/c of their love of God, and wish to spread goodness they find in this love of God. And their love is most assuredly more than you can imagine if you can't understand why they would want to give up so much for this job.
Why is it hard to argue this? What makes them closer to god than anyone else? Because they devote their lives to god?
Yes they are closer b/c they devote their lives to god - of course. This certainly does not make them better people (or even more obedient to his/her god's laws) per se; but I don't see how you can argue that if person A devotes his life to something person B does not - that person A is not necessarily closer to what he devotes himself to and B does not.
But to PeterC - Surely, there are priests who did some terrible things which is sad to hear. But to assume that all priests and nuns are filled with demons inside??? How can they be called such a thing if they not only devote their daily lives to God, but also helping a lot of people to change and heal spiritually which obviously- some people here absolutely needs.
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_vatican_priests
Those individuals who seek the position of priesthood either want power, access to young boys, or do want to help people. Yes, 2 out of 3 priest are not doing it for the right reasons.
Your argument only assumes from the perception of the person, not from god.
Look, if I got a buddy that worships the ground I walk on, really looks up to me, spends most of his time with me, does that make him closer to me? Maybe in his view, but not necessarily mine.
Anyways, since we cannot prove that god exists, therefore it is foolish to say anything is close to something that has not proven to exist.
i understand your perspective, and never really thought of it that way. usually when i think of closeness to God; i don't see God as the one playing favorites, rather the devotion men show to God as being a measure of the closeness.
i understand your perspective, and never really thought of it that way. usually when i think of closeness to God; i don't see God as the one playing favorites, rather the devotion men show to God as being a measure of the closeness.
it all depends on your idea of God I guess. typically for me i imagine the traditional - fair, just, loving. wheres others may not apply those traits to God and view it the way you do where he simply choses his favorites on his own whims.
slickjeep@yahoo.com
I do understand your comment, no misinterpretation. And I was just commenting how I thought your take on determining closeness to God was interesting b/c of how it is dependent on how you view God. So I was just clarifying I was coming from a perspective of God is fair, just, loving, yada yada yada - which logically follows that when one is more devoted to him, they would be closer to him. However, with differing views of God - then it's interesting to see how you can have differing views of being close to God.
I'm sorry, but it just reminds me of one of those fake titles at work, like "assistant to the regional manager."
using my perception of God, the person closer to God would simply be the one who's more devoted to God. And typically a priest who gives up their life to serve God's will is the one who is more devoted to God.
You must have a lot of faith in your priests. My interpretation is that the mechanic down the street, the farmer, the accountant, but not the lawyer, can be just as close to god as a priest.
According to your hypothetical, I admit there are people who go to church regularly, pray a lot, donate their wealth - but as a rule, this is just the starting point of any priests devotion.
Priests get a bad rap, and this may color your impression of them b/c of the skewed stereotype created. But from my reality of priests they are not the 2 out 3 joining the priesthood for the wrong reasons.
Look, two different interpretations of the same thing. Let's just leave it as that.
the comment from me you're talking about wasn't directed at you specifically (i didn't put the @__name:__ in the beginning), sorry about making that so confusing though.
my general thinking though is, to be a priest means you're taking your devotedness to a level that normal people can't achieve with their normal lives. however, some priests become corrupt and lose or never have the devotion - but as a rule, just being a priest requires a higher level of devotion than can be achieved through a normal (unpriestly) life.
I argued it and it wasn't that hard. Case closed.
I don't wanna cap on your comment (cuz it's actually funny), but if my buddy's considered a virgin, he'd call religious people brainwashed fools.